Use of Herbicides in Thailand (Exposed) Government attempted to cover-up use of herbicides in order to deny veterans disability compensation ..

Material found herein should not be interpreted as legal advice.     Legal Disclaimer Notices     Some Appeal Cases approved at "Serving in Thailand" for more information.
See also Unit Movement to trace steps in Vietnam.
See Landmark Ruling   Haas v. Nicholson     Details     Briefs:   VA     Haas
C-130 Tactical Aircraft     MAC Flight Data     Flight Crews;   Bangkok Shuttle     S.E.A. Map
USARSUPTHAI Memo/VSM     National Personnel Records Center     Toxin Contamination
"Unit Buddy" Locator Bulletin Board for Affidavits, click here.
READ ME FIRST - "Wall of Shame"       Hall of Shame       "Images of Soldiering"
The Steps in Denial/Appeal     Thai Vet SOC DENIED w/CHECO Evidence - Case Review
Wanted - Mac Flights Data for S.E.A.     The Air Force transported the Army!     Details
Okinawa 1998 BVA Ruling Cover-Up   First, Anderson AFB/Guam and then ten years of fighting VA.     Report to Congress     Thailand veterans Testimony Introduction to veteran advocate Taura King and Thailand info on herbicide exposure.     Outside Vietnam -   Presumptive Diseases   (Herbicide exposure)     Direct Cause vs. Presumptive Exposure

Thailand: anatomy of a counterinsurgency victory
From: Military Review | Date: 1/1/2007 | Author: Marks, Thomas A.

Direct Cause vs. Presumptive (READ ME FIRST)

      USAF CHECO Report "Base Defense in Thailand" (Secret)

Thailand Vets Extract in Support of Claim       Excerpt Content Only

[Congressman Lane] Evans also asked the Secretary for an assessment of the use, testing or storage of Agent Orange, Agent Blue, Agent Purple, Agent White or other herbicides which contain dioxin at locations in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Puerto Rico and various locations in the United States. U.S. locations include sites in Maryland, Florida, Texas, California, Georgia, Mississippi, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Arizona and Washington. However, the congressman noted that the amount of herbicides used in some of these locations may have been small amounts for short term testing and may present no danger to populations. Evans indicated in his letter that veterans who are claiming service-connection of disabilities that have been associated with herbicide exposure, have had serious difficulty in proving exposure. If the Department of Defense has evidence that herbicides were used in particular areas, during specific periods of time, that information should be made public so that affected veterans may receive appropriate assistance in establishing their claims. He complained that it is more than 30 years since many of the herbicides were used, yet veterans are still having claims denied. This is because the Department of Defense has not been forthcoming with information concerning the locations where veterans may have been exposed and it is well past the time for full and open disclosure.
Source:   RAO Bulletin May 03     For more on Evans' inquiries, SAF Letter from USAF.

Filing your Disability Claim,   First Stop

Thailand Vet Affidavits   (Intransit via Vietnam)
Detailed Report on Agent Orange by Cyber Sarge

Citation Nr: 0515988   Decision Date: 06/14/05;   "In this regard the Board notes that it was common practice at the time the veteran was being transferred to Thailand to allow for stopovers in Vietnam so military personnel could avail themselves of facilities and supplies that were not available to them in more remote postings such as Thailand."

See also Pay Stub Precedence 7/20/07.


"It was not only a common practice for Mac flights to stop in Vietnam (Ton Son Khnut/Saigon,) but when I flew Space-A with my Thai spouse in August, 1974, we stopped to both have personnel disembark and some personnel board for transportation to Thailand.     Thailand was a common R&R destination for many soldiers serving in Vietnam." - Franco Picchione, SP/6, USARPAC Hqs (1972-77); Overseas Depot/Ft Lewis (1970-72)
Continued - "Circuit/Vietnam:*   during the war, Mac flights out of Travis AFB, California would stop in Hawaii at Hickam AFB, refuel in Wake Island and stop at Anderson AFB in Guam before a final stop in Saigon (Ton Son Khnut,) Vietnam before dead-ending at Don Muang Royal Thai Air Base in Bangkok, Thailand."   * After the war, the Mac Command used McChord AFB, Tacoma, Washington and Fairbanks, Alaska over-the-globe flight path for fuel economy versus logistics stop pattern used during the war.     See Flight Data for more info.     Statement   re: email

Most of the evidence of record is circumstantial to establish that the veteran served in Vietnam at some point between July 1967 and July 1968.     This is shown by his SMRs documenting treatment at his base in Thailand, and going on long flights every 4 days, his 27 combat missions, his receipt of the VSM and RVCM, and the statements from T.T. and A.W.     However, the only direct documentary evidence of the veteran actually setting foot in Vietnam is his travel voucher of February 1968.     This is an official document that reflects that the veteran was paid benefits based on the itinerary shown on the form.     An itinerary that included several hours at Tan Son Nhut Airbase in Vietnam.     Although the other evidence of record tends to show that the veteran did spend time in Vietnam between 1967 and 1968, the travel voucher serves as direct evidence of that fact.     The amount of time spent in Vietnam is not dispositive of a claim, only that this veteran was in Vietnam during the appropriate period.     Source Claim:   0726412

Photo evidence is good where you are in the picture.     Above is me standing by my Mac Flight 707 and to the right, standing next to a bunk in a holding area "warehouse."

If you received a Casual Pay while in Vietnam, the better.     You can get a copy of the record(s) from DFAS which will also show tax exemption for combat zone "CZ."

Heck -- if you had a stupid (finance) clerk, he may have even given you combat pay for the entire month!     See also Pay Stub Precedence 7/20/07.     Wayne T. Boyd retired from the army; was a personnel specialist and indicated that he received combat pay while visiting Vietnam for only a day while stationed in Udorn, Thailand.     Wayne retired a First Sergeant.

The Board notes that there is no requirement as to how long the veteran was in Vietnam; even a few hours of service in country is sufficient to establish the presumption of exposure. See Veterans Benefits Administration Manual M21-1, Part III, Chapter 5, Par. 5.10(c) (July 1, 2004).

re: Citation Nr: 0502446   Decision Date: 02/02/05,   "plane stopped in Saigon; doors were open"

Quote/The appellant maintained in a September 2001 statement that he serviced aircraft in Thailand that had flown close ground support missions in Vietnam. He also reported that the only time he was in the Republic of Vietnam was as a passenger on a aircraft. He reported he was transiting from his duty station in Thailand to the Continental United States, when his plane made a stop at Saigon and all doors were left open. He indicated service department records showed the aircraft he traveled on flew over Vietnam twice (once each way), though the copies of service department records he provided showed no more than that he traveled on emergency-leave orders from Korat Air Base, Thailand, to Travis Air Force Base, California, in February 1974, and presumably returned to Thailand sometime soon thereafter.

Note:   the above cited case was placed on remand for further investigation.     That is not the issue or purpose of identifying the claim.     It is that the plane "set foot on the ground" versus passengers which is acceptable to the Board.     "Fly over" at high altitude is not which was always the defacto standard for negating the application of presumption for air crews, etc. based in Thailand.

Visit website notes @
      VSPA Site/Courtesy of TVVET

Exposure to AO
    while serving in Thailand
  See "Southeast Asia" inference..
    Claim Supporting Documents
    See also DFAS (CZ) and Bien Hoa!
      R & R in Thailand for Vietnam Personnel
      Other News Articles - GOVT COVER-UP
  More on Government Cover-Ups
  VSM Legal Precedence   (Haas Landmark Ruling
  the V.A./Secretary Nicholson will not acknowledge)
  .. and, the Thailand Cover-Up a.k.a. "conspiracy"

Thailand Vets
Inquiries - Testimonials

Korat - Bob Davies     Gary Matlack, VSO/DAV

Jimmy Welch     Mike Crittenden     Richwell Iso    

Tom Bjork - NKP Report     Timothy Sturges

Other Inquiries - Testimonials in Thailand ..   Dog Handlers     Dave Felten

More on Thailand veterans Testimony

Gathering Info .. Help Wanted!

Dave Broeker/TVVET     Marilyn Oliver

And, don't forget to send same info to Franco @

Wanted!   Air Force/Mac Flight Data
Sources:   Clark AFB Terminal, Tan Son Knut Terminal, and Don Muang Terminal
Air Force Personnel assigned to these Terminal Operations could be very helpful
in showing a Mac Flight pattern that stopped in Vietnam enroute to Thailand.

"Advocacy
- for the benefit of others,
is a blessing."
"Advocacy
- for profit,
is a sin."
- "Buk" Frank

Winter, 1967  
Ft Hood, Texas  
SP/4 F Picchione  
Legal Clerk  
502d Repl Depot  

Send your "Did You Know.." info
  to Franco @ Email; photo evidence is most welcomed too

Photo Exibits
(Including Document Evidence)

Frank, in his ten years of active duty and year with the Hawaii Army National Guard
was a Legal Clerk, Company Clerk, Assistant Team Leader (Transit Depot) and Finance Clerk
Frank is a totally disabled vet today in name alone; fighting the same V.A. you are.

U.S. Army Support, Thailand (USARSUPTHAI) .. finally, given recognition for veterans wear on "combat sleeve" shoulder Thailand: anatomy of a counterinsurgency victory

        At one point, military authorities proposed establishing a Thailand-based spray capability;[10] whether this ever occurred is unknown, although herbicide tests were conducted at Thai air bases as early as 1964-65.[11]"

Footnotes:

[10]   Agenda Item for SEACORD meeting, August 19, 1969; Disposition Form to Chief of Staff, Subject: Defoliation Operation, January 18, 1969 (declassified).

[11]   Deutsche Presse-Agentur (Bangkok), “United States denies Thai dumpsite contains Agent Orange,” April 22, 1999.

    FYI, this article was written in an "expanded version" August, 2002 by Andrew Wells-Dang.     I'd say a few years after "the cat was let out of the bag."     In govt-lingo, that's "de-classified."

"Whether defoliation continued after 1970 remains an open question. As a result of increased public outcry, restrictions began to be placed on herbicide use by the US military. In March 1971, Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird requested that he personally approve any herbicide operations in “Laos, Cambodia, or Thailand.”[31] Air Force records show that UC-123 planes, whose sole purpose had been listed as “defoliation,” conducted 860 sorties over Laos from January-June 1971, but no further details are given.[32]"

Footnotes:

[31] Buckingham, p. 178.

[32] 7th Air Force, Monthly Command Status Reports, June 1969-December 1970 (declassified).

    Well, that's got me sprayed .. I mean, "covered."     .. January, 1970.     .. none of this "early 60's b.s."     .. a reference to Footnote [10] and the quote above, in red .. 1964-65 .. right.

"Also unconfirmed is herbicide use by Air America or the CIA, whose records are still closed.[33] In an April 1968 interview, the vice-president of Air America declared that his company had been contracted by the Department of Defense to defoliate vegetation in Vietnam, Laos, and southern Thailand, based from the Udon Thani airbase.[34] The 1971-3 opium destruction missions were probably carried out on this basis, and secondary sources also report that the CIA had spray mission capability.[35] Air Force records do not list any UC-123 aircraft at Udon Thani during this period, suggesting that other aircraft might have been used; however, 7 UC-123’s were present at the Nakhon Phanom airbase in 1970 and 1971, presumably for defoliation purposes.[36] Further research is needed to confirm the extent of additional herbicide use in Laos."

Footnotes:

[33] For more information on missing data, see Andrew Wells-Dang, Roger Rumpf, and Jacqui Chagnon, “The Secret Spraying of Herbicides in Laos and Cambodia,” Interchange, Spring 2002 (http://www.ffrd.org/indochina/news.html#herbicides).
[34] Jacques Decornoy, “Une compagnie privee americaine participe a la lutte contra la guerilla,” Le Monde (Paris), April 20, 1968, p. 2.
[35] Robert Kaylor, “Despite Critics, Defoliation Continues in Vietnam,” Los Angeles Times, January 4, 1970, p. E10.
[36] 7th Air Force, Monthly Command Status Reports, June 1969-December 1970.
 
wgriff3245 wrote:
"We were murdered in Southeast Asia, and no one had the decency to tell us."  The US Government, beginning with Richard Nixon began a campaign to downplay the seriousness of the use of Agent Orange in all of Southeast Asia, by saying that they only used Agent Orange in South Vietnam.   This was a total fabrication.   Recently, a consulting firm from Canada tested the soil outside of Da Nang and found the soil to be 300 to 400 times the level of dioxins that was acceptable by current standards.   What was it back then in the 60's and 70's?   3200 times higher?   The VA is a big part of this coverup and the longer they drag their feet on this Agent Orange issue, the worst it is going to be, because once the American public realizes what this government is guilty of, all credibility in the world will be gone and our place in history will be right beside or maybe above Nazi Germany as far as atrocities against mankind is concerned.   The VA does not deserve any bonuses.

As a Vietnam veteran, who has been trying to get compensation for presumption of exposure to Agent Orange while stationed in NKP Thailand since 2004, I am appalled.   The DOD and the VA in my opinion is too broke to fix.   As we vets suffer and die, the VA is constantly in court, wasting taxpayer money on lawsuits against Vietnam veterans in order to allow them to continue not process any Agent Orange claims.   The US story of only using Agent Orange in South Vietnam is crumbling rapidly and the world is slowly finding out that the US military (USAF and Army) is guilty of serious violations of the Geneva Convention by using chemical and biological weapons during wartime.   It should have been admitted 40 years ago, but yet the US government decided to lie about the true complexity of the Agent Orange problem and literally turn its back on millions of its own.   As a vet who has been affected for the past ten years, I can not and I will not recommend military service for any young person, because this military, this government can not be trusted to tell the truth.   That is what I find to be totally unacceptable and not worthy of any respect.   We were murdered in Southeast Asia and no one had the decency to tell us.   I am trully ashamed to be called an American.

- Washington Post article comments on VA Exec Bonus Scandal

Editorial:   soil composition in Southeast Asia, the water tables below, would be contaminated for decades to come and when you add the natural monsoon rain cycles, it is difficult to say how broad and far the deadly toxins would be distributed.     Uncovered was spraying in Thailand during the '64-65 period and all camps/bases were clear of any jungle .. a phenomena that industrial strength weed killers could not produce.     Today, a recent visit in 2003, the foliage is back; I didn't even recognized the large Satahip Cantonment Area or Camp Samae San that looked like a desert.
- with the Army Engineers (Construction) in Thailand '68-70

See Assertions by Veterans of Herbicide Spraying in Thailand

DOD says:
  "There is no evidence of use of Agent Orange or herbicides here .."

Okinawa 1998 BVA Ruling Cover-Up     Anderson AFB/Guam Ruling

VSM Legal Precedence   (16 Aug 06)     Or the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (AFEM) that preceded the VSM This landmark decision sets aside the definition of "service in 'Nam" Over-turns any attempt by the VA to limit benefits to Vietnam-era Veterans Or the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (AFEM) that preceded the VSM NOTICE   (15 Sep 06 Update) .. take the above link to learn more about this landmark decision.

 

Vets Serving in Thailand
    and places like Guam; "brown"
  The "Conspiracy" to cover-up govt liability

Send your "Did You Know.." info
  to Franco @ Email; photo evidence welcomed too.

Furthermore, it is understood, that our government covered-up the use of herbicides/toxins.

    It has all been reported before, and using the claim from Guam here, let me explain what the "Government doesn't want you to know.."

Premise No. 1 -- "The jungle didn't clear itself.     It took (toxin) spraying."

Premise No. 2 -- "The soil, in the jungles, is very porous and became contaminated with the spraying; never cleaned-up, repeat -- never."

Premise No. 3 -- "The water tables in such regions is automatically affected for decades and the annual monsoon rains saturated with toxin-contaminated soils."

    Now, as you will see after reading this report, it isn't "rocket science" to deduce, legally or otherwise, the validity of herbicides, toxins; agents orange, blue, white -- you name it, were used in places like Thailand; around the military bases perimeters, airfields, and with the army engineers construction projects in support of the war in Vietnam.     See Photo Exhibits for more details.
 
October 02, 2006 — By Grant McCool, Reuters

BIEN HOA, Vietnam — Doctors warn people living near the Bien Hoa military airport not to drink the water, eat the fish or grow fruit and vegetables because of wartime dioxin poisoning.     Brain-damaged babies and children with shortened limbs and other physical deformities are still being brought to hospitals for specialized care, four decades after the United States sprayed Vietnam with the highly toxic defoliant.

In recent months, Vietnam and the United States have started to overcome years of frustration in both governments about how to deal with environmental and health effects of the poison code-named "agent orange".     Americans and Vietnamese say they are perhaps just months from planning environmental clean-up and containment of dioxin, beginning at the former U.S. air base in the central city of Danang.         Source:   VSPA Website     Background on Agent Orange

    For more information or for copies of the report, contact the Air Force Surgeon General's Office at (202) 767-4797.     "Operation Ranch Hand"

    Below, oops .. are several examples of "things gone arie" in Thailand -- to cover-up the activity.     A "Drum Farm" .. in Korat .. "used" drums being used for shower facilities (for the troops,) and how about pure, unadulterated cover-up, after the war, finding drums at the end of the airfield in Korat, where we worked; Thai government demanding a clean-up?     .. to this date, I don't think they ever did clean up that, or any other mess .. easier to pay off some Thai Army General; see militry coup (2006); it's easier; more flexible than a Constitution .. 16th since WWII, and this time the ousting of a Prime Minister and his political party that were for the poor people.     The same class of American people that fight our wars for us.

    Now, before I discuss the Guam veteran/claimant that was granted toxin exposure in Guam for herbicides sprayed there, a "direct" exposure (legal) claim (they (the government) had to make an admission .. too many witnesses, I guess; as well as documented in other federal reports decades later) please take a close look at this photo of the gate at Camp Frienship during the '60s and the military task force supported by the 9th Logistics Command.     That command logo, on the sign, is that of the 9th.     If you can imagine, the soil is an (army) engineer's dream -- to work with; soft, virgin and porous .. perfect for contamination.

    The photos are courtesy of MSG Otto Uebel, Army (Retired); military police unit; part of a huge Combined Military Task Force from all over the U.S. such as Ft Hood, Texas.     It serves to show my point regarding "spraying our military installations," the "softness of the soil" and the "affect on the water table, below."     See the "Three Premises" above.     Please also read the stories linked above before going into technical or legal premises found in the judge's ruling on the Guam claimant that (actually) apply to vets in Thailand, but the V.A. (agency) will not (repeat -- will not) acknowledge at this time.     Evidence of service in Vietnam, ie, "step foot on Vietnamese soil."

    IOW, you can scream until you are "blue in the face," but unless you "stepped foot in Vietnam," ie, visited the damn place, kiss your disability claim good-bye because the rules of law is against you, see Congress; the government covered it up and unless you have some fantastic evidence, you will be denied like hundreds that have come before you.     Even though the Haas ruling has over-turned the V.A. definition of "service in Vietnam," and the Ribaudo Ruling lifted the unlawful stay of the Board and Secretary of the V.A., you are up against a legal wall of bull shit.    For the latest details on this fight for justice for Thailand vets; VSM-recipient vets, click here.

    The judge ruling has several elements in law that make it a legal precedence for other veterans.

    There are several legal issues found in the judge's ruling that will help you be better prepared to defend yourself against an "adversary machine," complete with an army of legal counsel that doesn't want to give you anything!

    There are two basic elements to the claim that I will make quotes from, and/or you can click on the orange drum or soldier, above, to open a window on the actual claim, while I take significant passages and review them here.

    Okay, you have a copy of the ruling open in another browser window, if not, please do it -- open window.

    Note that the veteran (claimant)is evidently represented by a VSO, Massachusetts Dept of Veteran Services, one that I am not familiar with -- like American Legion, DAV, AMEVTS, etc.     If you have not seeked out a VSO to represent you, stop what you are doing, and do it!     If you can not have an attorney represent you, in the beginning, you may as well interview a few VSO representatives and go from there.

Background of the Illustrated Claim:     It is against the V.A. RO in Boston, Mass. and for service connection of the claimant's illness with diabetes, type II based upon the medical (and legal) premise that the diabetic condition was caused by exposure to herbicides/toxins while serving on active duty in Guam versus Vietnam where the presumption of exposure would be conceded.

    Now, the claimant is not making any (legal) assertion that he "stepped foot in Vietnam," but is affirming in his testimony that he was exposed to herbicides while stationed in Guam.     This "luxury," at best, in Thailand would be a tricky business and I can tell you from past experience that such claims have been denied -- no matter how assertive the claimant was.     And, that is whether you are represented by a real lawyer, or not!

Two Parts ot a Disability Claim

    You must have a disability that is caused by a service-connected medical condition and that disability is covered by law.     If either part of this "equation" is missing, don't even apply.     You would be wasting your time, and there isn't much an impartial judge could do for you.





    The judge or panel of judges that will hear your appeal should be considered impartial and the Secretary of the V.A. is the Defendant while you are the veteran filing the claim, claimant, or Plaintiff, in the appeal matter.

Tip No. 1 -- Do not change your attitude or personality for the hearing.     IOW, do not attempt to act "sophisticated" or "knowledgeable" -- if that is not you.     Be "yourself," natural.     The things that will come up, on average, happened over 30 years ago, and for some, closer to 40 years.     So, no one is going to expect you to remember things as if it "happened yesterday."     Although, I am always startled by people that have such terrific memories.     It would come in handy, but if you are like me, ie, "on borrowed time" aka Alzheimers .. then do the best you can.

    And, to emphasize this point, ie, be natural -- below is an excerpt of the CFR regulations, Section 4.23, which addresses this issue from the standpoint of the rating officer:

CFR TITLE 38 -- PENSIONS, BONUSES, AND VETERANS' RELIEF CHAPTER I -- DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS PART 4 -- SCHEDULE FOR RATING DISABILITIES--Table of Contents Subpart A -- General Policy in Rating Sec. 4.23 Attitude of rating officers.     It is to be remembered that the majority of applicants are disabled persons who are seeking benefits of law to which they believe themselves entitled.   In the exercise of his or her functions, rating officers must not allow their personal feelings to intrude; an antagonistic, critical, or even abusive attitude on the part of a claimant should not in any instance influence the officers in the handling of the case.   Fairness and courtesy must at all times be shown to applicants by all employees whose duties bring them in contact, directly or indirectly, with the Department's claimants. [41 FR 11292, Mar. 18, 1976]

Past Medical History

    This was interesting, in the judge's ruling, ie, references to the claimant's medical history, both himself and family.     I know, for a fact, that the V.A. used to deny claims for diabetics; stating that their condition "..they were born with it."     IOW, type I versus type II.     This absurd position is ridiculous and I understand that all such cases were appealed, or corrected and justice given to such veterans, after may be many years, though.

    As background on that matter, the V.A. would assert the claimant, as an insulin-dependent diabetic, was Type I.     Wrong.     First of all, the claimant is a senior adult, ie, onset and the disease may have progressed to the point that oral medications were not adequate before filing the claim and submitting supporting medical records.     There has never been (reported) incompetence of this level, or is it?     The V.A. claimed (medical) ignorance and who was hurt?     Simple.     The veteran.

    You should have a complete set of your medical records for services provided by the Healthcare System of the V.A. and/or your private physician providers, and do get your SMRs (service medical records) too. *     A cursory review of my V.A. File, I found a couple of "family medical history" entries referring to my mother and others in my family "having" diabetes.     Wrong.     If anything, in casual conversation while at a V.A. Clinic for treatment, I might have been asked such questions and was passive and the "interviewer" made a formal note of same in my medical records .. to my detriment.     p.s.   I didn't even know the mother of my father!     .. divorced when I was one year old...

    * Keep in mind, though, that your SMR will be free of medical complications due to most of the diseases, eg, diabetes during active military service as they are onset in nature and a result of military service years before.     Furthermore, the law states that you were fit for active duty when you enlisted or were commissioned.     See 38 U.S.C. § 1111, ie "Presumption of Sound Condition" and for more on the laws governing disability claims, see the U.S.C..

    I wish I could find a name so that I could give that person "a piece of my mind."   As far as I know, I am the only one in my family, either my mother's side or my father's side.     Talking with my cousins, all now in their late 50's, or 60+ like me; there are "smokers" and family (like my father) that died of lung cancer from smoking, but my mother is still alive, almost 90, bedridden, and yes, after ten years in bed (87,) she has "onset diabetes," mild; moderate medication (besides a feeding tube!)     Her brother and sisters -- all were smokers and died in their mid-60's from lung cancer; considered a long life without diabetic complications.

    It reminds me of an old-timer, probably WWII, that was interviewed at a local V.A. Clinic before performing a treadmill test for his heart about any past strokes, or heart attacks.     He was almost 80, or was 80+, and he paused and said "He's felt a little weak, and didn't remember having a stroke .." and the clinic techician "smiled" and said "Well, you must be fine, then!"     And, btw, my father died ten years ago at the (fine/old) age of 75 from a life of smoking and no other complications ...     And, my cousins from my father's brother, my uncle, are all fit and enjoying retirement, without the complications of diabetes, high blood pressure, or kidney failure (like me.)

    Just be ready to defend yourself and questions regarding your family medical history which is actually ridiculous because although diabetic conditions (onset) may be heriditery, it is not (legally) conclusive and you should defend yourself if an investigation shows other members of your family suffered from diabetes.

Quote/reference from the Judge's Ruling:

Source:  Army Engineer School History Dept., Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri


On the "Lighter Side" .. our government would 
never cover up facts because of disability 
liability .. would they?

"Hey -- Sarge, can we run down to Bangkok 
to get some more of that supa dupa weed 
killer stuff, in a 55-gallon drum?  
    We're (plum) all out.



     "Have you killed a GI today?  
      Well, what's your problem?!  
      Find one (fool) -- azap!"

And, Moses said:   

"Clear the jungle," and like magic (no spray or nothin,)

it was done.   Let it be written; let it be told.

Think about it, for a minute, jungles .. world trade center 

.. truck loads.  How many dump truck loads would it take?

"You guys -- get back to work!  You can clear that shit by hand!"

A Jungle without defoliant sucks ..  See Incl 7.  "Damn, girly-men."



"You better get your 'cover' on, unless you want to catch a cold!"

"Damn -- you guys did a helluva job clearing out all those 

weeds and stuff, do ya think we need more spray?"





"Hi Ho  Hi HO  It's off to spray the jungles, we go.."

"Look -- Mom!  No hands!"  Herb .. Herbicides!  .. in 55-gallon drums

Never except the immitation.  Purchased in the drum-size to kill more G.I.s

F.D.A. approved   U.S.A.F. endorsed  

Manufactured by DOW Chemical, a company you can trust to get the job done.

See excerpts of "Benefit of the Doubt" Rule of Law
 found in USC Title 38 § 5107 VA Claim Assistance Act of 2000
- signed by President William Clinton
  (prior to leaving office on 9 Nov 00.)

For complete text of bill, see Congressional Act of 2000.

Filed already; been denied???

CFR Title 38 References

§ 3.6    Duty Periods.

§ 3.102  Reasonable Doubt.

§ 3.103  Procedural due process and appellate rights.

§ 3.104  Finality of decisions.

§ 3.105  Revision of decisions.

§ 3.110  Computation of time limit.

§ 3.155  Informal claims.

§ 3.156  New and material evidence.

§ 3.159  Department of Veterans Affairs assistance in developing claims.

§ 3.300  Claims based on the effects of tobacco products.

§ 3.303  Principles relating to service connection.   V.A. Reviewer

§ 3.304  Direct service connection; wartime and peacetime.

§ 3.305  Direct service connection; peacetime service 
         before January 1, 1947.

§ 3.306  Aggravation of preservice disability. 

§ 3.307  Presumptive service connection for chronic, tropical 

§ 3.309  Disease subject to presumptive service connection.

§ 3.310  Proximate results, secondary conditions. 

         See "Kidney Disorder Case", ie, CRF (Chronic Renal Failure) 

         Also Secondary Conditons Case w/Award  VBA Case No. 9412692

         Another Fine Case   VBA Case No. 9832924  Moody v. Principi

§ 3.313  Claims based on service in Vietnam.

See U.S.C. References of Title 38

V.A. Reviewer    Searching USC

§ 101   Definitions

§ 1101  Definitions

§ 1110  Basic entitlement

§ 1111  Presumption of sound condition

§ 1112  Presumptions relating to certain diseases and disabilities

§ 1116  Presumptions of service connection for diseases

§ 1137  Wartime presumptions for certain veterans

§ 1153  Aggravation    V.A. Reviewer

§ 1154  Consideration to be accorded time, place, 
           and circumstances of service

CHAPTER 5  -  AUTHORITY AND DUTIES OF THE SECRETARY

Specific Sections re in Chapter 5

§ 501   Rules and regulations

§ 511   Decisions of the Secretary; finality

CHAPTER 51 - CLAIMS, EFFECTIVE DATES, AND PAYMENTS 

Specific Sections re in Chapter 51

§ 5100  Definition of "claimant"

§ 5102  Application forms furnished upon request; notice to
         claimants of incomplete applications

§ 5103A  Duty to Assist Claimants

§ 5103  Notice to claimants of required information and evidence

§ 5107  Claimant responsibility; benefit of the doubt

§ 5107  Benefit of the Doubt @ Your Advocate

§ 5108  Reopening disallowed claims

§ 5109  Independent medical opinions

§ 5109A  Revision of decisions on grounds of clear 
         and unmistakable error

§ 5126  Benefits not to be denied 
         based on lack of mailing address

§ 7104  Jurisdiction of the Board

§ 7105  Filing of notice of disagreement and appeal

§ 7252  Jurisdiction; finality of decisions

§ 7266  Notice of Appeal

This de-classified military document is grounds for appeal of same,
  imho.  You don't need an attorney to see thru this bull.

Warning to Lawyers:  any attorney that feels that providing vital 
information to my fellow veterans is "dispensing" legal advice 
will find their letter published here and a big fat warning 
to all veterans not to retain same.  Intimidation is not for soldiers.








Lawyer:  "Who are you???"

Moi:  .. yah'worse nightmare, mate.



Some lawyers may think that if you didn't go
to Law School, you have shit-for-brains...

Try me.  This Bostonian luv's a good fight.

This g.i. went to school the hard way; paid
for by sweat'n hard work in the army.

Some aerospace engineers that I ran into 
while attending U.S.C. and graduate studies
showed me what arrogance is all about.  Hah!
I dropped out with a 4.0 g.p.a.  "Hoo-ah!"

"Endless Summer" - 1984

Photo: visiting family in Bangkok @ Wat Arun (1984)
.. just returned from a surfin safari in Western Australia
Programmer
        for the Association of Surfing Professionals (ASP)
    and the National Scholastic Surfing Assoc (NSSA)
Resume - Data Processing Rare Birds
Today - Shop Las Vegas

    You need to read over the details found at the web URLs that I am providing here.     I will add more and provide more in the way of opinions, none which of course, may be interpretted as legal assistance because I am not a lawyer.

    1)   Visit website notes @ VSPA Site/Courtesy of TVVET

    2)   Visit VA Site for pertinent (Thailand)
            appeal case @ VetApp99

    There are some discrepancies in the findings and facts presented in support of his approved case, but because they are not completely accurate is not really the issue.

    The issue is exposure of agent orange and I, for one, believe that many individuals assigned to not only NKP (Nakhon Panom,) but Thailand military bases was exposed.

    Discrepancies noted:   Thailand is not on the border of Vietnam.     Thailand borders Laos and Cambodia and the Mekong River is the primary separator along the border of Laos and Thailand.     Yes -- there were reported attacks on bases in Thailand, but nothing that could be substantiated in the appeal brief.     The Ho Chi Minh Trail (or Trails) referred to in the appeal, generally speaking, run along the Laos / Vietnam border, far from NKP...

    Military bases in Thailand -- see "A Little Courage"

    The use of defoliants/toxins in Thailand are not discussed very much.     Why?     I'm not sure.     Possibly such military ops were subject to classification and the "well-being (or better -- wealth) of the U.S. govt" because there have been some reports (or scandals) uncovered in Thailand, specifically (years later) the plans for a commercial airport in Hua Hin for tourism development.     See the following articles/links for more details on "Buried but alive: Agent Orange is still on active duty in Thailand"   (November, 1999)   and   "U.S. Government tries to hide Agent Orange use in Thailand"   (June 24, 2002.)

    For more interesting reading, try these articles:

THAI NGO DEMANDS U.S. ACTION ON AGENT ORANGE   (July 14, 1999)

AO Tests in Thailand during "early" 60's   -- caught ! (..compiled in 1979)

An estimated 3.1 million veterans served in the Southeast Asia Theater (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, flight crews based in Thailand, and sailors in the South China Sea).   VA Fact Sheet   (March, 2000)     .. air crews in Thailand   .. sailors in South China Sea     Now, that's a way of limiting liability !!!

AO Usage in Thailand?

Asia News -- How about the entire (freakin) Vietnamese population and a court judge dismissing their claims,   details;   Apocalypse Still.

Quote / A federal judge dismissed a lawsuit Thursday charging that American chemical companies committed war crimes against some 4 million Vietnamese citizens by making Agent Orange, the military defoliant that allegedly caused birth defects, miscarriages and cancer.

"There is no basis for any of the claims of plaintiffs under the domestic law of any nation or state or under any form of international law," U.S. District Judge Jack B. Weinstein in Brooklyn wrote in a 233-page ruling. "The case is dismissed."

Lawyers who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the Vietnamese citizens argued that Agent Orange, which is laden with the highly toxic chemical dioxin, was a poison barred by international rules of war.     / Unquote

"VA does have significant information regarding Agent Orange use in Korea along the DMZ. DoD has confirmed that Agent Orange was used from April 1968 up through July 1969 along the DMZ."     Details.

"Unlike Viet Nam, exposure to Agent Orange is not presumed for veterans who served in Korea. Claims for compensation for disabilities resulting from Agent Orange exposure from veterans who served in Korea during this period will be developed for evidence of exposure. If the veteran was exposed the presumptive conditions found for Agent Orange exposure apply."     Details.

Agent Orange Compensation [Non-Vietnam]: Until recently, the VA would grant compensation to veterans exposed to Agent Orange (AO) outside of Vietnam only if the claimant proved exposure to AO and provided a medical connection between the current disease and that exposure. VA is making an effort to equalize the treatment of all veterans exposed to AO. They recently announced that if exposure outside of Vietnam were proven, and the veteran had one of the ten diseases presumed by law to be related to exposure to AO, the medical connection would be presumed and the claim granted unless there were other disqualifying factors. This was noted in comments on the final rule adding diabetes to the list of ?AO diseases? in 38 C.F.R. ? 3.309(e), at 66 Federal Register, page 23, 166 (May 8, 2001). In addition, any veteran concerned about exposure to AO during use, manufacture, testing or transport outside of Vietnam, may be given an AO physical by the VA and added to the Agent Orange Registry (VHA Directive 2000-027).

The only real issue is proving exposure. All persons who served in Vietnam are presumed to have been exposed. The VA is determining whether Department of Defense information is sufficient to add some non-Vietnam units to the presumptive exposure list, but none have been added as of June 2001. The following areas outside of Vietnam have been confirmed as places where AO was used:
1. The Korean demilitarized zone in 1968 and 1969 (extensive spraying).
2. Fort Drum, NY in 1959 (testing).
Other areas where veterans allege AO to have been sprayed include:
1. Guam from 1955 through 1960s (spraying).
2. Johnston Atoll (1972-197 was used for unused AO storage.
3. Panama Canal Zone from 1960s to early 1970s (spraying).
4. Elgin AFB (Agents Orange and Blue) on Firing Range and Viet Cong Village
5. Wright-Patterson AFB (OH) and Kelly AFB (TX)

Please note the above list does not include use in Thailand.     Slip?

FOR RELEASE: May 9, 2003

Evans Asks Secretary Rumsfeld for Information Concerning Agent Orange and
Similar Herbicide Usage in Guam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Puerto Rico and
Various Locations in the United States

Veterans Need Access to Information to Establish VA Claims Related to Herbicide Exposure

Evans also asked the Secretary for an assessment of the use, testing or storage of Agent Orange, Agent Blue, Agent Purple, Agent White or other herbicides which contain dioxin at locations in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Puerto Rico and various locations in the United States. U.S. locations include sites in Maryland, Florida, Texas, California, Georgia, Mississippi, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Arizona and Washington. Evans cautions that the amount of herbicides used in some of these locations may have been small amounts for short term testing and may present no danger to populations.

Evans notes that veterans who are claiming service-connection of disabilities which have been associated with herbicide exposure have had serious difficulty in proving exposure. "If the Department of Defense has evidence that herbicides were used in particular areas, during specific periods of time, that information should be made public so that affected veterans may receive appropriate assistance in establishing their claims," said Evans. Evans complained, "It is more than 30 years since many of the herbicides were used, yet veterans are still having claims denied because the Department of Defense has not been forthcoming with information concerning the locations where veterans may have been exposed. It is well past the time for full and open disclosure."

Here's a partial list Lane Evans made to the DOD Secretary Rumsfeld on May 7, 2003 for locations sprayed with agent orange:

Kauai, Hawaii
Kingston, Rhode Island
Kompong Cham Province, Cambodia
Laos
Las Marias, Puerto Rico
Las Mesas Cerros and La Jugua, Mayaguez, Puerto Rico
Loquillo, Puerto Rico
Mauna Loa, Hilo, Hawaii
Operation PACER HO (Disposal at sea)
Pinal Mountains, Globe, Arizona
Pranburi and other locations in Thailand
Prosser, Washington
Rio Grande, Puerto Rico
Wayside and Wilcox, Mississippi

I would appreciate a response to this letter by June 13, 2003. If you have any questions about this request, please contact Mary Ellen Mc Carthy, Democratic Staff Director, Subcommittee on Benefits. Thank you for your efforts to improve services to our Nation's veterans.

Sincerely,

LANE EVANS
Ranking Democratic Member

cc: The Honorable Anthony J. Principi
The Honorable Daniel L. Cooper

Anyone -- for a vacation in Hawaii ?!     No ..

"Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, commander of U.S. Navy in Vietnam and member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, charged that the government's exoneration of Agent Orange was ?politically motivated to cover up the true effects of dioxin, and manipulate public perception.?"     Details.

    Anyone feel like they've been "kicked in the teeth by a mule"???

    Yeah .. I know the feeling.

Conclusions


    Agent orange was used in Thailand, and undoubtedly Laos and Cambodia.     The United States government, in all its wisdom, has decided to limit its liability to veterans exposed to agent orange and of course, had complications from all sorts of nasty diseases to very limited groups outside of Vietnam, with a "buy" on those that have "stepped foot in" or "visited" Vietnam, presumptive (.. under the CFRs.)

    To insure this is a moot issue in the courts of law, you can expect no aid from our allies at/in the Thai government.     No way.

    As I said earlier, I was with the army engineers in Thailand.     Our camps were clear of all jungle and you know they weren't using anything you can buy at your local supermarket or Home Depot, ie, weed killers.     These were (highly) toxic chemicals that would kill you, evidently.

    Someone that was in my engineer unit which I have a rather "low regard" and will remain anonymous for this research wrote a bulletin board message that indicates knowledge of agent orange spraying and/or projects while in Thailand:

    Quote /   Hi (anonymous)!!   I remember you at Korat, Camp USARTHAI.   Also remember you from basic training in Echo-4-2.   I was the candy striper in our barracks.   I was just looking over our graduation book the other day and saw your picture.   I am really sorry I haven't replied until now.   Shows how much I get to this web site.   (anonymous) said to look here.   Let me know what's up.

        I was in the agent orange program for a short time, myself, because they sprayed up at Nakon Phanom but got out of it because I didn't like government programs.

see ya (anonymous)     / Unquote

Interesting?     It might have been to the individual requesting information for his personal claim except, as usual, the individual responding is more "blow" than dependable and does not give the requesting individual any hope whatsoever .. just more b.s.


    Before I continue with some additional website references for your information, let me make some "space" between the above "hot air" cause I really can't stand the individual.     I just point it out because I agree with his statement about "government programs" .. in Thailand.

    Okay .. got that out of my system.     In 1994, I went back to Thailand and visited a region of Southern Thailand that I